Why on earth is the moustache of understanding-- he who has been profoundly wrong about everything from the nature of the free market-- still haunting my tee vee?

Crossposted with more and bigger.

Open thread below...

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MSNBC's Dylan Ratigan talks to Rep. Alan Grayson about the amendment passed by the House Financial Services Committee to allow an independent audit of the Federal Reserve. If Alan Greenspan is not happy about it, I take that as a good sign they did the right thing. It only took putting this country on the edge of financial ruin that we're not out of yet for the S.O.B. to ever admit he might be wrong about anything.

Ratigan: Alright first big newsmaker of the Meeting, Democratic Alan Grayson, better known for some of his fiery comments on Republicans and health care, now taking aim at the Federal Reserve along with so many others. He says the Federal Reserve is more secretive than the CIA, and his new amendment co-sponsored by Republican Ron Paul would allow the first ever independent audit of the Federal Reserve. The amendment edged out a competing proposal from North Carolina Congressman Mel Watt who wants to limit those very audits.

Congressman Grayson now joins the Morning Meeting. Your amendment approved by the House Financial Services Committeea huge step forward. Where do you go from here and whats your level of confidence Representative that you can continue to addendum behind this piece of legislation?

Grayson: Where we go is to stop the secret bailouts. There have been hints and hints now for more than two years that the Feds been conducting huge bailouts on the scale of hundreds of billions of dollars to favor large failed banks. Now were going to find out all about it, and were going to decide whether its good or bad.

Ratigan: Comments from both the former Fed chief Alan Greenspan and for that matter former Fed chief going back even further Paul Volcker to the House Financial Services Committee. They say we can assure you that this protection of internal deliberations in reaching decisions that will affect market conditions and could expose sensitive information about particular institutions is indispensable to the Federal Reserves conduct of monetary policy. Basically if you look behind the curtain, you wont like what youll see and it will screw things up worse. How do you respond to that?

Grayson: Well we are in Emerald City right now. Weve arrived in Emerald City. Toto has just run underneath the curtain

Ratigan: Excellentexcellent

Grayson: and were about to see who is that man behind the curtain and whats he up to.

Ratigan: And they dont wantand what wouldwhat do you think is behind the curtain?

Grayson: Well what I think is favoritism towards selected big banks that have failed and led us to the brink of national bankruptcy.

Ratigan: What of the fact that lending lawbeing a bank no longer pays that much money to lend money. Lending because of modern technology is a low profit business so the government legalized much higher ways to do it in secret and basically the Federal Reserve is their back end. Do youare we on our way to restoring laws for lending in this country?

Grayson: Listen, capitalism requires rewarding success and punishing failure. Thats what Joseph Schumpeter said almost a century ago. So far weve seen plenty of reward for success of Wall Street but no punishment for failurenot when the Fed is handing out blank checks.

8:09 EST: Dodd, presiding over the Senate, said the motion passed, smattering of applause. Motion is agreed to. Clerk is now reporting the bill and amendment.

And that's it for the night. Debate will begin after Thanksgiving, plus amendments, then moving on to the final cloture motion and a final vote.

8:04 EST: Cloture passes 60-39. Debate will start after Thanksgiving.

7:57 EST: Voting continuing.

7:56 EST: Clerk reading cloture motion.

The question is: Is it the sense of the Senate that debate on the motion to proceed shall be brought to a close. Clerk is calling the roll.

Voting now.

7:55 EST: Vote starting 5 minutes early.

7:54 EST: Absence of a quorum noted by Reid, and the roll is being called. Vote coming soon!

7:44 EST: The American people want us to start over. All it would take is just one on the other side of the aisle to not end the debate, but change the debate.

And he's yielded.

Senator Harry Reid (D-NV) is up.

My friend, the minority leader, has had since Wednesday to read the bill. Obviously he hasn't done so.

We debate the right to live free of disease and death by giving health care for all. The road has started many times, never been completed. Merged bills have never been done before. We couldn't have got here without the help of many Senators.

As a matter of principle, that I respect, the senior Senator from Arkansas insisted we have time to read the bill. All Senators have now had ample time. That is why we are voting tonight.

I invite Republicans to join the right side of history. Around dining room tables, families are agonizing over what to sacrifice next to afford health care. Employers are wondering whether they can afford to provide health care. Americans need reform.

Debate is constant, but the only place where silence is evened considered is the Senate. Now, finally, we have the opportunity to bring this great deliberation to this body. That and nothing more is what this vote does.

A yes vote says this issue is important and the Senate should at least talk about it.

Some Republicans would like Americans to think voting to debate the bill is voting to pass the bill. Tonight's vote is only the beginning of debate. It's clear Republicans have no problem talking about health care on TV, at town hall meetings, on the radio, yet now that we have the legislation to debate, to amend, to build on, will they refuse to debate?

If we refuse to let the Senate do its job, what are we doing here? What do we fear? And who's voice to you speak for? In who's interest do you vote?

Certainly debating reform can't be more difficult than American deciding to pay their mortgage or medical bills. It can't be more upsetting than having an insurance company take away your coverage when you need it the most.

Kennedy once said let us not be afraid of debate or discussion, let us encourage it.

Don't be afraid of debate. It's our job. We Democrats stand ready to do what needs to be done. We welcome debate. The framers intended for debate here. Imagine if instead of debating historic GI bills, this body has stood silent. Instead of debate social security or medicare, the Senate voices had been still. Instead of debating to abolish slavery or give women the right to vote.

Don't try and silence a great debate over a great crisis. Don't say you ran and hid when given the chance to debate this issue. The right response to disagreement is discussion. Democracy is discussion. Let us debate our differences.

7:32 EST: Senator Mitch McConnell (R-KY) is up.

At a time when Americans are looking for jobs, the Chinese lecturing us about our debt, this bill costs 2.5 trillion the government doesn't have and can't afford.

It imposes punishing taxes on almost everyone. It raises premiums for 85% of Americans who already have insurance. It slashed Medicare by half a trillion dollars.

Anyone who votes "aye" tonight is voting for all of these things. It is a fact, a vote in favor of proceeding is a vote in favor of adding to the tax burden of Americans. A vote in favor is a vote to raise premiums, to deep cuts to Medicare, tells every American family sitting in a waiting room tonight that cost is not our concern. A vote in favor is a vote in favor of a spending binge that's leading to a massive long-term deficit.

If there were one Democrat, just one, who would say no tonight, none of this would happen. And then we could start over.

Under this bill, health care costs will go up, not down. 2000+ pages.

We don't want to end debate, we want to change it. Because once this bill is on the floor, the basic dimensions won't change. It's going to take 60 votes to change this bill. That means the bill that's introduced will fundamentally be the bill we'll be asked to pass sometime in the future. That is a fact.

7:25 EST: Senator Chris Dodd (D-CT) is up.

Recognizing Kennedy, who "is with us only in spirit."

Then asks why we're all watching C-SPAN on a Saturday evening.

Health care costs is the single biggest threat to our financial future. Never before has this body confronted directly this issue. Health care is our most basic need. No matter how much you make, your hopes and dreams, who you are, where you live, what your job is. In America, we should be able to get the care we need.

For too many health care has become our most basic fear. Can't see a doctor. Premiums skyrocket. You lie awake at night wondering what if you lose your job, or you get sick and find out your policy doesn't cover care you need, or it's canceled altogether.

I wish I could say those fears are irrational, but they're not. Our system is broken. People are losing their homes and dying because they get sick. This is not acceptable in our America. That's why we're here on a Saturday night.

We need all the ideas we can get to fix this. But if you've watched the debate over the last few days, nobody has stood up and said we should do nothing at all. Tonight's vote is nothing more than a choice between doing something and doing nothing. I urge my colleagues to join us.

Dodd has yielded.

7:17 EST: Senator Max Baucus (D-MT) is up.

"To be mature means to face, and not evade a crisis." Our health care system is in a crisis, and this crisis will not solve itself. We must face the crisis.

For years we've studied the issue. We've held nearly 70 hearings. We combined a bill and we've brought that combined plan to the Senate floor.

We have a bill that will put Americans, patients, and their doctors back into control. It will end harmful insurance industry practices. No more denials of care. No more hyping up rates for sick Americans. No more taking away health care if you're sick. No more lifetime or annual limits. If you pay your bill, insurance companies must provide you benefits. No more discrimination based on gender. Insurance companies must disclose the share of premiums that go to medical benefits. No longer will insurance companies get tax credits if they pay their CEOs too much.

Our bill is paid for, it will lower costs, and it will reduce the deficit.

Many are happy with their current plans. This bill will not change that. But too many others don't have access to quality insurance. Our bill will give people choice and know exactly what they're buying. Tax credits will help insure all Americans can afford health insurance.

Small businesses will also have access to tax credits, and will be able to spread their risk. And no longer will there be a separate congressional health plan.

Our bill will strengthen Medicare.

We hope to have a full debate. But we have the opportunity at last to face the crisis and show mature leadership.

And Baucus has yielded the floor.

7:10 EST: I believe passionately that we should defeat this bill. We need a bipartisan bill.

Before I came to the Senate, I was a small business owner, a shoe store. When someone said they couldn't afford a shoe, I didn't give them a sales pitch, I found a shoe they could afford. The people in America are complaining, we're showing them the shoe they can't afford.

We have a big decision to make tonight, that will have a lasting effect on our country. If we pass the motion to proceed, we'll debate it for a long time. America will be surprised at the time we waste when we could be doing jobs and the economy.

And Enzi has yielded.

7:00 EST: This bill creates mandatory spending in perpetuity. Talks about the debt growing and jobs being lost. Reid said this bill will be deficit neutral. But the real cost is hidden by implementing taxes first and spending later. When you extend it on out, you won't continue to cover those cost. So, disaster.

What would constitute fraud in the accounting world is being voted on. Medicare is going to go broke, and we're going to take billions from Medicare. If Washington accounting had to come under the same laws as private business, the administration would be in jail.

Now talking about the American people. Majority of Americans believe their costs will go up. The American public isn't fooled. David Broder, the dean of Washington's journalists, said a recent survey said less than 1/5th believe that health reform will be deficit neutral, and a majority oppose the legislation. Broder said it was a "budget-buster."

The group of six couldn't come to any conclusions because the topic is so big. It's a thousand billion dollars. A billion is a thousand million.

6:50 EST: Senator Mike Enzi (R-WY) is discussing jobs and how health care represents a "massive government intrusion" into health care. Government will determine whether your health care costs too much. What services you should receive. Now he's bringing up the mammogram recommendations.

Saying this bill gets it wrong. Doesn't fix what's broken and leave what works. Senator Reid is trying to jam through a strictly partisan bill. Will increase the deficit and harm our jobs. No serious economist would say this bill creates jobs or helps our economy. Health care spending will increase, will not improve quality, or change the delivery system.

"The voices of August are still echoing, and coming from a vast majority."

Says there is a job-killing tax on business because they will have to provide health insurance. The health reform bill will threaten your jobs. Heritage foundation says this new job-killing tax will put 5 million at risk of losing their jobs.

The bill will threaten our nation's jobs and economic growth, and increase our debt and deficit.

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Hello everyone! For those who I'm meeting for the first time, I'm Jason and I write for The Seminal as well as work for Health Care for America Now.

John Amato has been kind enough to invite me over to Crooks & Liars for a little bit of liveblogging the Senate health care debate today leading up to the cloture vote at around 8 pm EST.

I'll be keeping up with the debate in the Senate (on C-SPAN 2), as well as trying to explain the Senate procedure and answer questions folks might have.

And with that, here we go...